tozka: title character sitting with a friend (twm flower)
mx. tozka ([personal profile] tozka) wrote in [community profile] thisweekmeta2019-01-20 04:01 pm
Entry tags:

000. welcome & faq

This Week in Meta is a pan-fandom meta newsletter. It collects links from: Dreamwidth, LiveJournal, Tumblr, Twitter, Youtube, blogs, and anywhere else people may be writing and talking about meta. Newsletter guidelines, linking rules and etiquette, as well as posting policies and moderator accounts can be found here.

Anyone can join and anyone can comment, but only editors can post.

FAQ


What is meta?
"In fandom, meta is used to describe a discussion of fanworks of all kinds, fan work in relation to the source text, fanfiction characters and their motivation and psychology, fan behavior, and fandom itself.

Meta or a meta essay can also be a fan-authored piece of non-fiction writing that discusses any of the above topics."
-- via Fanlore

What is linked here?
Meta about: fandom as a whole/concept, fandom history, fannish activities/experiences, fandom statistics/polls, acafan writings, fandom-wide news and resources.

We will (probably) not link to: memes, headcanons about specific characters or fandoms, episode reviews, book reviews, movie reviews, homework help, troll comments/deliberate wank.

Why don't you link to meta about specific fandoms?
Sometimes we do, if it's the kind of meta that could apply to multiple fandom genres, character types, tropes, etc. Also most fandoms have a newsletter or noticeboard of their own, so if you're looking for meta about one specific show, you can usually find it easily enough.

Who runs this thing?
Right now it's [personal profile] tozka, who started it after realizing that all the old meta fandom newsletters had died several years back.

I want to add my link!
Leave a comment on the newest newsletter post, or email the editor.

I don't want my link here!
Leave a comment on the newsletter post your link appears in, or email the editor.

I have other questions or comments!
Leave a comment on the newest newsletter post, or email the editor.

Promo Banners


Please feel free to use these banners to promote the newsletter!






-- Last updated January 24, 2019.
teigh_corvus: ([Personal] Ooo! Shiny!)

[personal profile] teigh_corvus 2019-01-22 12:21 am (UTC)(link)
This is such an excellent idea! Thank you for creating this newsletter. :D
alasse_irena: Photo of the back of my head, hair elaborately braided (Default)

[personal profile] alasse_irena 2019-01-22 06:54 am (UTC)(link)
Oh this is so gooooood! Thank you!
sqbr: And yet all I can think is, this will make for a great Dreamwidth entry... (dreamwidth)

[personal profile] sqbr 2019-01-22 11:27 am (UTC)(link)
Oooh, hooray!
ride_4ever: (TYK)

[personal profile] ride_4ever 2019-01-22 03:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you kindly for creating this newsletter!
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-22 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)
We don't ask permission to link to publicly available posts, but we will give you a head's up that it's going into an issue.

Mmmm, I don't mind if individual people link to public posts on my DW without asking. I feel a little differently about a big fandom newsletter doing it with no warning.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-22 08:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I know if aggregates ask permission, they tend to be denied or put off or the post gets locked, &c &c.

I thought perhaps a good compromise would be to sort people and link them directly to the issue they're in, and then offer to take down the link if they wanted.

Not to be just negative, but: I don't think that really works -- the link will have been out there long enough that people will have already followed it, and people also get notifications of posts or leave their tabs open and so on. It can be very hard to unring the bell. Then if someone is unhappy with having been linked, they might just delete or lock the post anyway, and think twice about posting public meta in the future.

I think it's partly Tumblr v Dreamwidth yet again. On Tumblr everything was absolutely open and people could find you with universal keywords or reblogs, and so people were very open to dozens or hundreds of strangers reblogging their post and commenting on it. (Or not open, as the case might be.) With Dreamwidth, people are more used to talking to their circles, although most people will also welcome comments from outside circles or even other sites. But that tends to be a trickle, not something that can happen all at once. One reason why I'm on DW is I really disliked the Tumblr pile-ons.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-22 08:55 pm (UTC)(link)
....I don't really know? Which I know sounds like a cop-out, but this isn't my project?
muccamukk: Bill standing in front of the TARDIS bookshelf. (DW: Queen of Books)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-22 09:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I think asking if you can add them is a good solution. Some people may not answer, but there are lots of other posts you can include. Most DW people WILL answer.
muccamukk: Groot surrounded by his own branches and glowing pollen. (GotG: Green Man)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-22 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)
You're already linking once a week or so, to posts that are days old, if it takes a day or so to get a reply, it can just go into the next issue.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-23 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
That sounds like a good idea. Trying to make stuff time-sensitive on the internet is kind of a lost cause, and this isn't Twitter or Tumblr, people don't really care about that anyway. One of the nice things about LJ was people would leave comments on posts that were months old, and dormant conversations could start back up. The conversation didn't end.
dhampyresa: (Default)

[personal profile] dhampyresa 2019-01-23 10:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree that linking to posts in the next newsletter (or the next next one or whatever) wouldn't impact my enjoyment of getting to read them. And I think grouping stuff by topic might encourage more discussion.
pocketmouse: pocketmouse default icon: abstract blue (Default)

[personal profile] pocketmouse 2019-01-23 12:58 am (UTC)(link)
Same - I don’t tend to post a lot, but it also means I’m used to the only traffic I get being people I know, strangers wandering into my space is not something I’m prepared for. I’d say ask, and make it as low-effort as possible to respond. Like, they don’t actually have to compose a reply, even of just ‘yes,’ they just click a button (if you can do that without people thinking it’s spam).
muccamukk: Jan flying joyously. (Marvel: Flying)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-23 02:50 am (UTC)(link)
Right, like I don't care, my profile says so, but I know a lot of people who DO care and don't have statements in their profile one way or another.

I don't think you'd need a button, just ask a yes no question. There's chances of a button/widget not loading right anyway.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-23 09:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I like the_rck's policy that if you asked and got no answer, that was a no. It seems like this should be opt-in (or at least I, personally, would feel better if it were opt-in, being honest).
muccamukk: Wanda walking away, surrounded by towering black trees, her red cloak bright. (Default)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-23 09:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I like opt in as well.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-24 02:22 am (UTC)(link)
Also, I didn't realize til you said in Mucca's comments you are THE ONE PERSON doing this! Strength to your arm, dude.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-24 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
I admire your dedication and fear for your possible caffeine intake!
cathexys: dark sphinx (default icon) (Default)

[personal profile] cathexys 2019-01-23 09:08 pm (UTC)(link)
But Dreamwidth had newsletters as did LJ. Unlike Tumblr, we have the choice to lock posts, so I actually think linking public posts should not require the OP's consent unless there are clear indications that this would invade their privacy or cause them undue stress. (My own judgment used to be based on the poster, i.e., did I know they liked conversations, on the amount of discussion already in the post, on the size of their flist, and on whether the post was a pure meta post or contained personal stuff as well.)

I feel like the ability to lock and also the ability to just say, never link me, should be enough (yes, that'd mean that linking is default and you'd have to actively opt out, but this is the internet and even archive.com isn't respecting robots and spiders any more...which horrified me when i found out!)
muccamukk: Bill and Twevle wearing forced smiles of distress. (DW: happyhappyhappy)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-23 09:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't see why asking for consent for blogs that don't have a posted policy is a problem, especially for a weekly newsletter. It would make several people more comfortable, and harm nothing.
muccamukk: Cap pulling Iron Man to his feet. Text: "Help you stand." (Marvel: Help You Stand)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-23 05:10 pm (UTC)(link)
The following is from the_rck, who was one of the metafandom mods and wanted to share her experience, but is currently swamped and can't commit to conversation about it at this time. I offered to post as proxy for her.
During the time when I was doing link finding for [community profile] metanews, the main reason we didn't link much in the way of LJ or DW posts was staffing limitations*. Asking people for linking permission really wasn't a limiting factor or impediment. Nine out of ten people (possibly nineteen out of twenty) responded to a query in the comments, and almost all of them said yes. We'd wait two to three weeks for a response to the request and then, if we hadn't gotten an answer, assume that that meant 'no.'

Some people on DW and LJ have profile statements that include permission to link. We didn't ask for permission for specific posts from those people. We also decided that accounts that were clearly meant as real name accounts for professional authors could be linked without permission because they were intended as a public interface. That only applied if the name on the account was the name the person published under professionally. If the user name was bippitybobbityboo and the name on their books was John Smith, we'd ask permission.

Linking is a lot like demanding that someone throw a last minute party for their kid's soccer team-- 15 six year olds and all of their siblings and parents. Asking before linking gives people a warning to do the household equivalent of making sure the kids' bedroom doors are closed and that there aren't stray LEGOS in the carpet or smelly, dirty dishes in the sink. Some people will say yes. Some people will say no. Some people will pretend that message went to junk mail/got eaten by voicemail because saying no outright is rude and might lead to a panic attack and saying yes would lead to a worse panic attack anyway.

The people wandering into a post and wanting conversation are potentially crossing other social boundaries. Once I have guests in my house, I have an obligation as host. Somebody's going to ask why the refrigerator doesn't match the stove. Someone's going to rummage in the bathroom cupboard and get judgy about what's in there and what isn't. Strangers will argue with each other about politics or fashion or proper parenting practices.

Asking permission to link gives people time to say no privately. It's much harder/more humiliating and terrifying to say no after people are already letting themselves in the door and setting up chairs in the yard. At that point, if one says 'no,' it's in public. People might mock you on FFA or sneer at you in other places.

Going back to the last minute party-- There are knock-on repercussions for saying no and for not behaving perfectly while hosting. If you refuse or botch it and everybody knows, will you ever be able to attend a game or practice again? Will you be able to carpool? And those families will be there at school and for the other sports your kids might want to play.


*[community profile] metanews was supposed to have link finders who focused on specific potential sources of meta. At the very end, I was doing most of the link finding. My assigned scope was entirely separate from LJ and DW. I might link things there if they were things from within my circle, or I might have a spare hour and figure that looking at one or two journals wouldn't make me more exhausted. We didn't link much on DW and LJ during those last months because we lacked staff even to track people we knew posted a lot of meta.

It wasn't that we were asking and being ignored or rejected. Almost everyone said yes.

Another reason that permissions weren't generally an impediment was that finding obscure meta posted by people who don't write it frequently is very difficult. Link finders can't possibly follow every account that might potentially post meta, can't check every newly created journal to see if there's meta. Going through half a dozen irrelevant posts to get one linkable post is feasible if one's absolutely certain that something will be there. Going through forty or fifty or a hundred posts to find something? That devours time.

Most people who post frequent meta either lock all of it or know that they may be hosting a party each time. A meta aggregating newsletter is more useful when it turns up things that readers wouldn't see otherwise. Someone new to DW or new to reading meta (or to reading it for a specific fandom) may well benefit from seeing links to that new post by person Q; people who've been around longer and/or have broader reading lists will have seen that post linked at least six times and probably follow person Q anyway.

Generally speaking, people who post meta infrequently won't ask to have it linked even if they know they could. There's a fear of rejection. There's also a fear of being seen as demanding/encroaching or-- worse-- pathetically needy. Bringing one's own work to the attention of the link finders leaves open the possibility that the resulting link is a pity link.
muccamukk: Jeff and Delenn sitting quietly together, background of starcharts. (B5: Constellations)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-23 05:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I will pass that along. I knew she'd done it, and thought she'd have some insight into it.

(I admit that I didn't follow metanews, mostly because I was already following most of the people who got linked there anyway.)

I also, as a separate issue entirely from the_rck's post, wrote about dreamwidth pile ons, and how they've happened in the past: https://muccamukk.dreamwidth.org/1190836.html

I really don't want you to think that I'm not supportive of this project! I think it's great! I'd really like to see it do well.
muccamukk: Inked art of Tony with a black cat on his shoulder. (Marvel: Black Cat Tony)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-23 05:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I like those! I do think it's okay to just link if someone has a "It's fine to link!" thing on their profile.

Thank you for all the thought you're putting into this. I really appreciate it.
havocthecat: the lady of shalott (Default)

[personal profile] havocthecat 2019-01-23 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
No one wants that, and I'm sure everyone understands it's a work in progress! I'm sure it'll all get smoothed out and refined as you go on.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-23 09:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I personally liked the idea "We'd wait two to three weeks for a response to the request and then, if we hadn't gotten an answer, assume that that meant 'no.'" That seems fair, especially since there's a lot of meta around if you're pulling from all those different sites.
cathexys: dark sphinx (default icon) (Default)

[personal profile] cathexys 2019-01-23 09:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Sorry to be nitpicky but...metanews wasn't metafandom, and the latter never asked for permission. It wasn't an issue mostly erly on, but as the newsletter grew and especially as THING became WRONG (I loved your differentiation there in your post :), it became more of an issue.
muccamukk: Text: I wasn't going to be as much use as Thomas "Oh, sorry,was that your Tiger Tank?" Nightingale. (RoL: Tiger Tank)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-01-23 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
WHOOPS! That was me not the_rck.

Metanews, yes. Meta fandom was another project entirely.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-23 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I really like what the_rck said especially about expectations and social boundaries, and kind of treating it as a last-minute party.
duskpeterson: The lowercased letters D and P, joined together (Default)

[personal profile] duskpeterson 2019-01-28 01:40 am (UTC)(link)
I like all these comments by the_rck. This seems to me to be a sensible policy.
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2019-01-23 06:19 pm (UTC)(link)
From your answers and general participation/etc (and like, here I want to say: go you for stepping up to do a big thing! I have much sympathy with the Stress involved!), this may go without saying, but it might also be good to note whether or not you'll respect people putting a "please don't aggregate" note on their posts.

An example: a while back I was doing a thing where I summarized the events of the Silmarillion chapter-by-chapter in Approachable Me-Style Talk. It was something I was happy to do publicly, and I was absolutely fine with people spreading individually, but at the time I was super burned on the kind of attention that could come from any kind of aggregator (whether this kind of metafandom one or even the kind of Fandom Newsletters that were still stumbling along to silent death at the time).

So I put a "please do not aggregate" note on the index post, because I knew that those operating at the time knew what that meant and would follow it.

Honestly just from what I've seen in responses it seems intuitively likely you would too! So it might seem like A Given? But I think explicitly noting it if so would also help anyone who is wary feel better.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-23 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
A lot of people on Tumblr who wrote personal posts but had unlocked blogs (because you couldn't lock them) would tag them "please don't reblog." Guess what, people reblogged them to add a sympathetic note anyway.

I already have a note about 'please don't repost huge chunks of my blog without asking' and don't really want to add another one about 'please don't link to a newsletter without asking' because then it seems next week I'm going to have to add 'please don't X without asking'....I know DW has privacy controls but it seems like some people are more used to the Tumblr binary on/off -- if it's public, it's REALLY public, so to speak.
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2019-01-23 09:42 pm (UTC)(link)

That's why I'm talking about this specific account saying specifically that they won't aggregate if there's a note right on the post. Presumably the people operating the account would then follow their own specific policy. (And if not this is a whole different convo.)

I'm not actually stating "I think we should norm things so that everything's fair game" bc I'm not actually in control of the norms and have elsewhere already made pretty clear that I think asking before linking in this kind of newsletter is a better way to go? So.

I just think there's benefit in stating "by the way we will definitely abide by any notes on your post saying 'don't link this in newsletters'", because then people can work on the assumption that you're that level of thoughtful/respectful of the poster's wishes, unless you do something specific to make that a lie. I think noting that explicitly - for this newsletter, specifically - has a potential benefit in terms of signalling attention to those concerns.

Like: there's no way to keep malicious or thoughtless Persons In General from linking or copying or otherwise using anything public, so if one is assuming bad faith/indifference then locking is your only way. So I'm not really bothering to think about those cases. Much like that kind of person isn't going to be stopped by my having a related works policy, they're also gonna link anything that isn't locked? So.

kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2019-01-24 02:25 am (UTC)(link)
That wasn't my point. My point was that I don't want to have to come up with new disclaimers about stuff I'm only hearing about by chance every single time, because I think some people may be working with slightly different definitions of what's public/private. I don't want to see people on DW just lock posting period -- that would make the site more like Tumblr not less. My problem like other peoples' was with the original "We don't ask permission to link to publicly available posts, but we will give you a head's up that it's going into an issue." If a weekly newsletter goes ahead and says "Permission to link?" that's really different. And people in general ask first, even if it's a friend asking to quote in their own DW, or maybe post it in a "greatest quotes" community.
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2019-01-24 02:28 am (UTC)(link)

....okay?

I'm not sure why you're bringing this to me as I've already stated I think that asking etc is the best idea and what I'd prefer?